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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:06 pm 
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Greg, lately I've been bashing on an idea that would be something like a merger of ORE and FATE. I don't think any original ORE text would remain to the end, but a few common concepts like the core mechanism and the use of dice gimmicks (master/expert dice) would be included.

Assuming I wrote a full book out of this, what steps would I need to take in order to use ORE in this way. Are there restrictions on how far you can stretch it and still call it ORE? If I don't claim direct lineage are there still licensing issues? Would adding elements from an OGL game (FATE) cause some kind of licensing interference?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:27 pm 
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It's a tricky issue. To a rank noob watching from outside (like, say, 90+% of the American judiciary), ORE looks EXACTLY LIKE the Storyteller system. "Yes your honor, they added a 'stat' plus a 'skill' and then threw a bunch of 'dee-tens'. It's clearly plagiarism!" You and I, of course, appreciate just how different the success curve and the resolution experience is.

Short version: If you don't copy any text and change the feel substantially, it becomes its own thing. I can't think of a modern game that doesn't have some visible antecedent, and that's OK. So if you don't call it the ORE and it only borrows mechanical bagatelles like the idea of "if you're really good, you can partially aim your roll before rolling" and "if you're fucking WONDERFUL you can partially aim your roll AFTER rolling," you're probably clear.

Now, by 'core mechanism,' what do you mean there? "Roll a pile of dice, look for matches, Width means one thing and Height means another"? There you might be getting close to some kind of issue.

-G.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:43 pm 
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Right, the base mechanic would be roll d10s, look for matching numbers. The quantity of matching dice has one meaning, the number matched on means something else. I know the game Hollowpoint uses a similar set-up but calls width and height something else and uses d6s. I'm not sure how much "conceptual distance" I need before I have to call up the rights holders and start making deals. My current design uses the roll for matches, width means "effect", height means "precision" (hit location in combat), and both are used for initiative. That's pretty much ORE right off. I haven't yet decided on how to represent damage (if I want to use the silhouette with locations and boxes model, or something a bit different) and how you determine the dice pool size if pretty distinct from the usual stat + skill. Still, it's not like I'd be fooling anyone who knows ORE that I wasn't using it as a model.

Assuming I had something good written up, it may not be an issue (from my side) to arrange a licensing agreement, but if the changes I make are different enough then probably no one else is going to want me calling it ORE or even ORE-inspired because it's going to muddy the water on the other games that use it. I thought you were the owner of ORE and that other games (Arc Dream mainly?) were licensing it from you. Perhaps I'm mistaken in that understanding of the ownership situation.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:57 pm 
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I guess the obvious follow-up question here is: "Are we ever likely to see a version of ORE available under an open license?" :)

~~ Ssieth ~~


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:50 pm 
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Ssieth wrote:
I guess the obvious follow-up question here is: "Are we ever likely to see a version of ORE available under an open license?" :)


Well, that'd be nice, but I don't expect it so much. I like open licenses, but I respect that a creator should be able to make money through their artistic work. I just want to know how I can catch a ride on that sweet ORE money train. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:00 pm 
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Quote:
I just want to know how I can catch a ride on that sweet ORE money train.


Heh. You and me both.

Currently, ARC DREAM has an exclusivity deal, so I direct most people there and they work stuff out with Shane.

I'm currently noodling with a system, and I'm thinking I'll do some kind of open-source/open-design deal with it. It's called "System 6-10."

-G.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:28 pm 
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GregStolze wrote:
I'm currently noodling with a system, and I'm thinking I'll do some kind of open-source/open-design deal with it. It's called "System 6-10."

-G.


Colour me intrigued ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:19 pm 
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GregStolze wrote:
Heh. You and me both.

Currently, ARC DREAM has an exclusivity deal, so I direct most people there and they work stuff out with Shane.


Ah ok, I guess I'll email Shane then, thank you.

GregStolze wrote:
I'm currently noodling with a system, and I'm thinking I'll do some kind of open-source/open-design deal with it. It's called "System 6-10."

-G.


That would be pretty sweet. I've a great fondness for your systems, particularly the interesting uses for various mechanical bits you devise. That'll be something to look forward to.

I like open licenses myself, and I think they can be financially valuable. Evil Hat has done very well (by what accounts I can gather) with FATE, and at least 3 or 4 other authors/houses have been able to publish games using that system and make a little for themselves too. I'm not sure if the original content creators (Stephen Sullivan for FUDGE, then Evil Hat for FATE) necessarily make any more money by releasing open, but I think that the overall amount of commerce and value created by that game engine is far greater than any one of those producers could individually have made.


In any event, thank you for answering my questions on your forum Greg, I really appreciate the straight forward answers and having this conversation out in the open should hopefully help anyone else with questions about ORE's licensing.


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